Today, we are going to spend some time talking about fear and how fear plays a role and a pretty destructive role in dominant submissive dynamics.
And it's certainly been a thing that has come up both on my side and on yours a lot in the 5 years that we've been at us now? Sure has.
And it's really been a very limiting limiting factor, I think, on both of our sides, something that's held us back from having the best experience that we could have this dynamic as we've worked into it.
But at the same time, it's shown us a lot of really helpful things that we've been able to learn from and work through.
So we're gonna spend some time getting into what fear has been for you on the submissive side of this because there's quite a bit there, but I wanna start out talking a little bit about fear on the dominant side of the equation because First of all, I think there's a lot of assumption that being a dominant is just easy.
It's the easy part the easy role where you just get everything you want and everything goes your way all the time.
You sure do make it look pretty easy, but I've had your moments.
I have I've had my moments.
Am I've had I've had plenty of moments also below the surface that I don't necessarily telegraph to you that I work through in my own ways.
Of course.
Because it's important to me to be strong for you to be holding the space in this relationship, which means you know, yeah, of course, there are gonna be times that I fall apart, but the, the more often that I can fall apart in a place outside of here and put myself back together so you just get to experience me at my strongest.
Like, the better that is for us.
So, like, when I tell men to not use their relationship as the place that they dump their their unprocessed emotions or try to figure out where they're at or work through shit with their partner.
It's not that you don't work through shit.
It's not that you don't have some big challenges that you need to work through.
You're just way better off.
The relationship is way better off if I can work through those things outside of here in a different place.
Right.
And I just want to comment that that, you know, you have fallen apart a couple few times, whatever.
I I don't keep check.
Um, but there is there was value in my experience of you in those 2, even so I I just share that because like, don't let fear.
Like, keep you from being real and human and like, it's important how you handle yourself through it and after it is is part of the experience as well.
Yeah.
Because, you know, that's one of the places I wanted to start was for a dominant, there can be a real fear of not of, like, fucking up the leadership.
Right.
Doing it wrong and then ending up in a in a worse place because of decisions I made or because of something that I took us to and towards.
And it can really get you bound up as a dominant.
Just kinda stuck in, like, what I've heard called analysis paralysis.
Mhmm.
And not acting at all because of a fear of making the wrong decision and always trying so hard to analyze and make the perfect decision that you don't make one at all.
Yeah.
So, you know, from your perspective, if I were to be and I can't of an example of this off the top of my head, but if I were to be indecisive, because I was trying really hard not to make the wrong decision.
How is that? Like, how is my fear going to impact you? Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna feel it right along with you and my fear is probably going to turn into a hundred times more and that um, habitual pattern.
I don't know if this is just me or if this is just humans, like, the jump in and take charge response probably would come out, which is the opposite of what we want.
Right.
So I no doubt if that's how I was um, handling you, I I wouldn't feel safe.
And so my cling to safety would be do it for yourself.
Or do it for us.
And there's another place that fear can come out, then a on the dominant side is like, if I don't do it right, then she's gonna jump in and take charge.
And we're gonna lose the the power dynamic because there can be the old patterns that, you know, in our relationship having been together for a decade before we started down this dom subpath, we had 10 years of experience of how we had done it before that we had to work through.
We didn't just get to pretend like those 10 years didn't happen.
Like, they all happened.
Through and out of.
Yeah.
And so, you know, we're still, like, we were still in that as we tried to change it.
But was a lot of learned behavior on both sides of this, and so there can be like, and I know that this was a big one for me that still probably impacts me sometimes is like a fear that if I don't do well that those old patterns of you like, jumping back into how you used to be are going to come right back.
And that is just so much the opposite of what I want for us.
Yeah.
Please do? Uh, it took me a long time to realize that subtle pattern in myself in what fear would do to me in that because I didn't realize how much I still projected perfection onto you.
And so I kind of operated under this Let's see if I can, like, give some clarity to this.
I operated under this well, it you're taking the lead in this area, and you say you know best for me.
It always will go well.
No matter what.
It's gonna be the right decision, the perfect decision, whatever it is.
And so in the times where maybe it didn't go, quote unquote perfectly, what I would unconsciously jump into was making meaning out of all of that.
And then the ego way of looking for confirmation for you being wrong and not knowing what actually was best.
Even though I had plenty of evidence that it was like you've shown me a better experience of life.
And so what I really, even more recently, had to come face to face with is that I can't just surrender to the level of expected perfection that in even the ways that maybe A decision that you made didn't quite go the way you want it, the way I expected without realizing it.
That there was always an opportunity in all of it.
And the meaning was yours to be making sense of, but there was always a gift in however it turned out and your ability to I've referenced this before, like, make beauty from those ashes, like, has only, um, in my experience gotten It doesn't even quite feel like the words, but I'm just gonna use them better and better.
And so I definitely projected this.
I idea of perfection onto you out of a fear.
And I had to swallow my pride on that one and just be like, Oh, wow.
Like, I've been doing that a long time.
And so, because it's a vulnerable thing of, like, being like, here, lead me, and you know what's best for me.
I can't be outweighing all of the outcomes.
Yeah.
And that's a very poisonous.
Well, any of these things are very poisonous to the connection that we are trying to build together.
And, you know, I say trying to build because this isn't something where we get to just be there.
No.
Where, like, we get to be finished.
And I think some people think maybe, like, always sign a dom subcontract, or we put a collar on her, and now, like, now we're there.
Like, now it just gets to be perfect.
When really like, that's just really when the work really begins because now everything is is on the table and thing.
Like, all the cards are shown.
Yeah.
And in my experience, you know, when create this desire to follow you in a certain area.
And what life is going to show me if I'm willing to see it is the ways that fear is holding me back or that, like, I'm clinging to something.
And so it it's almost as if it's like, okay, this is yours.
I I can't handle it anymore.
I still have opportunities in gifts that are shown to me in order for me to fully integrate that letting go of whatever it was in that experience.
Another really big one for me and for a lot of guys, I know, like, but I'll speak in first person for this is the fear of upsetting you? I can understand why you would have that one from her past.
Even though I never turned into, like, a monster or anything, like, I just can understand.
Well, and it goes beyond you and before you, really all the way back to back to early childhood.
For me, which was, like this pattern which was if I don't please the women around me, the women around me are going to make my life miserable.
Yeah.
When you're dealing with, um, some unconscious So, you know, when when those patterns are still there in from early life.
And now, you you kinda said this earlier, I'm looking for confirmation of that because that's how our brains work.
This is why we can't separate dominance and submission from all of the deep personal work because dominance and submission bring all of that up on the table.
Yep.
It puts everything out there and lays it all out bare because now, for sample this pattern of, like, I need to please you.
Like, I can never upset you.
That's been there since childhood.
Well, now you've given me authority over your life and asked me to lead you somewhere, which means I need to be able to tell you what to do.
If I'm afraid of upsetting you, I'm not going to be able to lead you in in a way that is going to present as having any sort of confidence or strength.
Right.
You know, there's a phrase in in these kinds of relationships called topping from the bottom.
When the submissive is taking charge and trying to use the role of submission to take control.
But what I'm talking about here is kind of like bottoming from the top.
Like, being one in charge, but trying to lead by just figuring out what you want and giving it to you.
Yeah.
Which is impossible.
Yeah.
It's impossible.
We it was a Instagram follower this week sent us a direct message that said something like If I had a dollar for every time that a new, quote, dominant, wanted told me he wanted to make me his queen and then proceeded to ask me, what do I want? What do I like? And how does he please me? I'd be a rich woman.
And, like, that's that pattern playing out for a for a dominant man to come to his submissive and say, just tell me what you want and I'll give it to you.
You just put, you know, that's just putting you in charge.
That's making you the leader.
Yeah.
And that wouldn't feel good to me either.
And that's all based in in fear on my side.
Of making a wrong decision or upsetting you or taking you in the wrong direction or, like, somehow or another displeasing you, which that fear is usually, and at least for me, and in my experience of it with other people, it's it's a fear of being abandoned.
Like, you're going to either physically leave or emotionally shut down, which is abandonment to a man when a woman shuts down emotionally.
That's the That's the emotional abandonment that our sensitive hearts can't handle.
Right.
So at least until we've healed them and realize that how important I guess it is to stay in connection and to stay open.
So you know, fear in general from the dominant side is going to really present itself as a lack of actually taking authority, a lack of actually showing up in the dominant energy.
The lack of assertiveness.
And if you think about this outside of a dom sub dynamic, who wants to follow a leader who's walking her own terrified? Not me.
I don't think anyone does.
I wouldn't think so.
Unless you wanted to somehow manipulate or control that leader.
So being willing to look from my side of the from my side of the slash at where I'm afraid and where I'm acting afraid and where I'm not stepping forward in full assertiveness is a is an important piece of work for me to do to be able to stay in my strength and to stay in my assertiveness.
Um, and in in the dominant energy that you need me to stay in.
And that's where fear as poisonous is can be is also valuable if you're able to see it and look look through it to see what it's pointing you to.
But fear from the submissive side is a very different experience.
Because most dom most fears that dominant dominance have is about a fear of some sort of an emotional retribution.
What is how is that similar or different for you from the submissive side? Well, I could come up with all sorts of fears that can be real.
Like, some of the same, what if he leaves What if he drops me? What if he makes a bad decision that negatively impacts our life? What if A lot of what ifs there.
Yeah.
And just in saying that is, you know, The acronym I heard a long time ago for fear is false evidence appearing real.
And all of that right there is jumping out into the future.
And acting like, and acting with, like, you have these glasses on that you can see what's gonna happen.
And in my experience, wearing those glasses.
It's always, um, either worst case scenario.
Or it's a version of just something from my past because that's the lens of life that I'm seeing of possibility for one thing.
And so oh, gosh.
There's part of me that wishes I could rewind myself and go back to some of this and really recognize how the amount of year I had, um, out of the self protection.
Like, the ego is real.
And in my experience, it hasn't completely stopped yet.
So if it ever does, If it ever does, I will tell you.
I will tell you.
Um, and so What I've really had to really lean into was recognizing any pattern that that my ego would either pull me back into assuming something was gonna be repeated from the past or worst case scenario of something else happening in the future.
I fell for it a lot without even recognizing it.
Because I was operating with a lot of pain and wounding from my past inside.
But as I was able to let go of some of that.
More and more and more, I slowly was able to see myself more clearly.
And then eventually come face to face with, like, how much fear was still affecting my ability to truly follow.
Do you see living in fear? Submission as being able to coexist.
No.
Not completely.
Because if I if I wanna be present in the moment.
That's the only moment I have.
I can't be jumping out into the future, and I can't be thinking about the past.
And so, like, even let's say I'm trying to come up with an example of I mean, I've talked about fitness and nutrition so many different times.
I know it sounds like I'm beating a dead horse here, but those were those were patterns that ran deep.
In me.
And I don't, like, I don't need to understand all of that, and I never will.
But it it's like it was attached to so many different pieces of my life.
And so just in, like, you taking ownership and leadership of writing my workouts, you know, to varying degrees.
Sometimes it was like work that I use muscles today.
I got to be creative with what that looked like.
Um, but even in giving that to you, there was still this tension in my body.
There was still these ways that I was trying to control where my mind still go out into the future of like, what if I'm not gonna get to where I wanna be by giving this to him? And I didn't see the depths of what that was doing for me.
It like eventually I always did because my ability to witness myself has only gotten better and better.
As I've been more in my body and as we stay connected, it my ability to do that is so much deeper.
But anything that takes me out of the present moment is feels to me like it's taking away my ability to just be present and follow you.
So how do you overcome fear.
Like, what what's helped you because you have, to some extent, let go of some of the fear of following, some of the fear of, um, being vulnerable, Um, my initial response, what came up for me was face it head on.
Now, that might look different in different things because if a fear is actually coming from a a deeply rooted big trauma inside of you, um, that might not be achievable.
Not in the moment.
No.
And so but being willing to take that step forward.
Like, one thing for me was allowing myself to be called out in fear when you saw me respond reacting that way.
And being open to being called on my bullshit, to be like, Hey, you're falling for your ego.
And there were times where I was like, no, I'm not.
That was most of most of the time.
Like, yeah, this is, this is all fear.
No, it's not.
Like, this is real.
Right.
Well, here here's an important distinction that I think it took us a while to me a while to fully experience the difference is fears coming from the mind.
It's not an emotional reaction the same way the other ones are.
And I don't even, like, so I don't even know if you can say fear is an emotion because it's I'm I'm not minimizing the physical response that bodies will feel.
It's a nervous system response.
And so you like, I feel fear in my body, just like I feel emotions in my body, but it was really tuning in to the difference in what those experiences were and where it was coming from.
What is the story that my mind is trying to attach to this? Where is my mind what meaning is my mind making out of this right now? And that's not always easy to, Well, at the beginning, it's not easy to even witness yourself in.
But give, like, giving myself compassion and being willing to take the ownership when I fall in for the fear Like I said, opening myself up to being told, yeah, you're fucking up because that was such a, like, I can't I can't do that like I can't look like I don't have it all together.
I can't look like I'm not perfect.
So that's also what I was feeling in all of that too.
Yeah.
And so, for me, like, when there's wounds, fear.
I get it.
The the interesting thing is how Like, if we talked earlier about the fear of kind of upsetting you, which can take me like out of the energy of being dominant and out of being assertive.
Yeah.
Well, if I'm able to overcome that fear, and step into being dominant and into being assertive and into like leading you with strength and saying this is what we're going to do now.
Which is way harder for a lot of men that I think a lot of women give, uh, credit to, for how challenging that is to be, just to be that assertive, to be that dominant to just give orders.
And rightly so when we're kind of losing our shit to fear over here.
Right.
Well, that's what I'm that's kinda I'm getting at here is, like, if I can overcome my fear to get to the point of being able to be that assertive and to be that dominant, and then your action is to freak the f out at me because I stepped up and did that.
Now, that's very That's a that's a real challenging thing back over here on my side where the old fear just kind of gets revalidated by your reaction out of fear.
And that's why this, again, like everything else, is a two way street.
We have to try to overcome these things together.
I remember one moment.
Um, I wanna say it was maybe a little over a year ago.
And I always have a response to something you were doing.
Um, and I was so like, I was assuming you weren't going to put as much care into how you were handling it as as I would.
And I was responding to that in you guys, it was something really simple.
Do you know where I'm going with this? No.
I don't remember which thing you're talking about.
Well, this is our 5th wheel camper.
And, um, you were putting up some Oh.
LED red lights, we didn't have to use the ceiling lights.
And so you were putting up a strip of them onto, like, the wood overhanging in the bedroom.
And putting in a light switch for them.
And without even realizing it, I wasn't making an assumption that weren't gonna care how it looked, how it was put up, like, where the light switch was that was gonna be best for the both of us.
And I all, like, I was getting I was having this response, and I don't remember all of it.
But what I remember is you came to me and you gave me a hug and you said, What are you afraid of? And I was like, And now I had to be vulnerable and actually say it.
But in you receiving me and being so present with me and me expressing what that fear was you receiving that and giving me your own, like, I've got you.
I will handle this with care or or whatever.
Like, that melted the fear away.
And I was like, oh, silly me.
Instead of the defensive reaction, which would have been you don't trust me.
Like, I'm perfectly capable of putting up a strip of lights.
Would you just back off? You know, yeah, or and looking for the evidence of me not just following and allowing you to lead us.
Like, Yeah.
So one thing I know that I've been working to teach you very recently in our relationship is this idea that, well, one, fear is not your dominant, I am.
Yep.
It's not what gets to tell you what to do.
Right.
Because it doesn't care about you the way that I do.
Oh, it's don't care about me at all? No.
So if fear is not your dominant, then It can't be the thing that tells you what to do, meaning rather than reacting out of fear and therefore never getting to actual experience that you need to surrender that fear and trust me to lead you into an experience so you can have an actual experience and respond to that rather than responding to the assumptions that meaning when I said I've come face to face with how I've been allowing fear to feel like my emotional, um, response.
And like, it's no wonder that in those moments where we don't know what we're feeling, it's because we're not actually feeling an emotion.
We're feeling fear from the mind, but it's very, very sly.
And so, you know, a y ago, you had you had shared with me, like, obedience first.
And I was like, Yes, I get that, but what about my emotional response? And then I was like, well, there like, if I'm gonna live in a fear.
I'm always gonna have a re emotional response and then I never actually follow through with obeying.
And that's what I wanted to do.
That's what I'm desiring to do.
I don't wanna live in the fear And so when I'm able to catch myself, which I'm much better like, because I tell you what, like I said, that ego is still working on me.
It still has all sorts of programming from my path but I'm able to catch it in a much different light now where it's like, oh, no.
I'm actually gonna follow and I don't have the emotional reactions then.
Most often, like, not really anymore.
It really, in all honesty, like, It's fear.
And there's gonna be different layers of this because as we come into more of like, as I've come into more of myself, and I I go through this pattern of, like, that and that freedom, this is good.
I always almost like hit another hurdle, if you will.
And then there's all to new fears that can come to the surface because I'm pushing that edge of who I am because I want more and more in more bigger experience of life.
Like so when I've accepted that fear is just gonna be a thing, it helps me also not be so afraid of the fear itself.
So how often would say that what you've been afraid of when you've actually let the fear go and allowed me to lead you towards something and into some new experience.
Whether that's some new experience of giving me authority in our lives or something that maybe happens in the bedroom or anywhere else in our life, it's really the same.
Um, how often would you say fear has been accurate? Never.
Never? I don't recall a single time.
So in that Spain then, how how do you, if if you were to want to be able to, let's use a new phrase I've never used before, but to submit beyond fear.
Can you say that question again? How would you go about for yourself? Allowing yourself to do something like submitting beyond fear.
I would go back to the beginning of this whole thing.
And I'm I would tell myself jumping with 2 feet.
Like I did at the beginning of this because that 30 days of trying to have conversation about what is this gonna look like? What could this be? Like, some of that was helpful.
You know? There there was communication that had to be had, but eventually I came face to face with, I cannot know all of what this is gonna be.
So it was like jumping with 2 feet.
Now I can say that now because of our history together.
And I have this evidence of the ways that I was trying to control my own life.
I was controlling everything about my soul's experience of the world.
That's what I have been shown.
And so I can continue to live in fear from the ego and keep myself in experience, or I can choose to live in the limitless possibility.
Face fear head on.
You know, in a song I recently came across by Pitbull, he was talking about fear at the beginning of this.
We're quoting Pitbull now in the Infinite Devotion podcast.
I love that.
This was great.
It was Fireball? No.
Low.
No.
You've heard that song.
He doesn't talk about fear in there.
It's it's I think in quotations, it's called the World them.
I don't remember the name of the song.
Um, but it's forget everything and run or face everything and rise.
So if you wanna look for things to be afraid of in the world, you're gonna find them.
If I'm gonna for limitless possibility in the world, I'm gonna find that too.
And so that's been a differentiating factor of like just recognizing Like I said, the the ability to kind of look back at my life has become more clear and I'm able to witness how I've shown up with a new lens.
And I don't know exactly why or where where that came from, but it it feels very, very real.
And, you know, this also comes I'm looking at lack versus abundance in my life and how all of that is somewhat attached to fear too living in lack.
It another important distinction here for me is wrecking recognizing where I allowed fear from other people into my life.
And that's been an important thing to eliminate with your help to but, like, I don't watch the news.
I don't input information off of social media that gives me a fear response in my body.
At all anymore.
Like it and now I am able to feel more free in my body because I'm not in constantly triggering myself.
And so all of these things I know have contributed to where I am today in everything related to fear.
What else would have to be present in your system in order to consider your submission to be beyond fear? I would say trust in myself that I am connected to my body and my soul that if something didn't go well, that I would speak up.
And I would also say trust that you would be okay even if it didn't go well? Yes.
No.
Like I said, I I can't I'm not gonna sit here and try to analyze every example of, you know, in my response was like, well, fake sit head on jump in with 2 feet, maybe, maybe not.
But if you can't, if there's a situation where you can't, be open to, um, receive the messages for you from your intuition on what's going on, you know, because I'm none of this has been that that easy.
It's gotten easier, but it wasn't very easy at the beginning.
But as I It still has its hard points.
Absolutely.
But there's also, um, there's also, like I said, It's really if something feels really triggering to you and it feels like fear.
Be open for what that can show you.
It might mean that something is actually not for you, and that's okay.
But it might be coming from the mind.
And that your mind is always going to limit the possibility of what can be in from the ego.
And a lot of that knowing what's really for you and what's not for you is hard to determine without having experiences.
Right.
Yes.
Very valid point.
Because fear will convince you never to have the experience, like, never to try the food that you're convinced that you don't like because you're already convinced you don't it, like me and avocados.
I've, like, I spent most of my life thinking I didn't like avocados because they were green and slimy and yucky.
I'd never actually eaten 1.
Right.
And that's for, like, just being willing to challenge yourself.
Like, maybe it's not jumping into the experience right way.
But being willing to challenge yourself from different angles on mobile like, what if this can I feel into my body? But we can't forget about the other, like, spectrum on fear is excitement.
And so this is something I really have come to, um, recognize.
And I'm gonna use just this the whole thing of being controlled.
In my past, I could not access very much the turn on that can be there in the power dynamic.
It didn't even always feel exciting at the beginning, but it felt like it made my life better.
So I was willing to follow.
And then as I, like, went through more of the emotional release and and letting my sexuality be set free.
Like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, wow.
Like, there's some excitement here.
And so that's another thing that I the way that I challenge myself is can I find any excitement in this? And it might not be right away, but it might come in the future.
And so I open my experience and I invite in the excitement because that's telling to me as well.
Can I feel that in my body? Because there has been plenty of times where I feel the fear, but it's also excitement.
So it's like, Uh, you know, like, oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And it's also happened where fear has hidden the excitement from you? Absolutely.
Where the excitement wasn't present until you had been brought to face the fear and then went, oh, that's actually really that's actually a really good time.
Right.
So the last thing I wanna talk about is how know, my role as your dominant is a very important one in helping you face and overcome fear because I need to be able to give you the leadership that you need.
I need to be able to see, like, what are you afraid of? What are your your fears that are holding you back from having the best that are holding you back from having the best experience of being yourself.
Or that are holding us back from having the best experience of each other.
So I need to know what those fears are.
I need to be able to be tuned into them and see them.
Even if you maybe think that they are thing other than fear.
I have to be able to know the difference.
Right.
And again, I don't well, I don't remember if I mentioned this, but in a moment where if you can catch yourself, like, feeling that maybe you it feels like anxiety, like, I don't whatever someone wants to label but when you've in those moments where it's like, I am feeling something right now.
And even if it's like, I am feeling a no to that right now.
But I know that's not how I wanna show up.
And so sometimes just Witnessing yourself by vocalizing it it out loud in my experience has been powerful.
Because then you can also receive me and you have that as information Mhmm.
As well at like, oh, okay.
This sort of thing is happening every single time we do this.
And Yep.
And it's one of the ways that I've been able to tune into where your fears are because something that's not for you.
Generally, your response to it is like, uh, nah, that's not really my thing, but something that is a fear based response has a lot more charge to it.
And that is one of the ways that I've been able to see the difference between what's just not for you.
And what actually might be for you or where there might be excitement for you that's being masked by fear.
Yeah.
It's it's because the fear comes from the ego and that keeping you comfortable and keeping you safe and And keeping you and your old patterns that are familiar Yeah.
And recognizing that is how I've how I could answer that question.
Like, honestly, I don't think I can't remember how you asked the question about when his fear actually been Yeah.
Been accurate or Been accurate.
Yeah.
Like, never? Well, because that's my a part of my role as your leader in to be able to see what where fear is holding you or us back.
And then to be able to gracefully, but in and intentionally lead you into experience is where you can have some evidence where you can start to develop some proof in your own system that what you were afraid of is actually not going to destroy you.
And it's not going to be a worst case scenario that you're gonna be okay Right.
To be able do that like especially if it's a big fear to be able to do that in a way that lets you maybe just touch the fear and then be able to pull back from it and see, like, everything's okay.
And then bring you into maybe something that's a little bit more direct contact, but let you see that you are going to be okay and that the fear is lying to you.
That it is the it is false evidence.
Like that's a that's a really big part of how I see my role is helping you overcome those fears because when they are in you and you're carrying them with you, they are impacting you in other ways that you maybe can't even see.
Yeah.
And I I do wanna add that, you know, it doesn't mean like, oh, just go face all your fears today.
Just blow them all out of the water.
It's more so just being able to see it for what it is.
And sometimes it's a No, this isn't for me right now, but I'm open to see what else I need to see in order to face this fear in order to let go.
You know, it's this is not a um, this is not a one day, 1 week thing.
This is a ongoing journey of learning how to Um, I I guess witness yourself in in how you're showing up and when you're falling for the ego and all of that.
And this is where having some patience as we've talked about before in gray in leadership is is really important and compassion for you as my submissive to like, rather than just blasting you with the thing that maybe you're the most terrified of and, like, make you do it so that you can face the fear.
I think that might not actually be the best approach.
Right.
You have to be able to understand the person that you are.
Like, I have to be able to really know you.
And if it's a really big thing you know, if somebody's terrified of spiders, you don't just throw them in a bathtub full of spiders to help them overcome the fear of years.
You maybe look at one from a distance and then you walk away.
And you call that a win for the day.
Right.
Yeah.
Big difference.
So, like, for the for the dominance out there who are wanting to, like, lead their submissives through something that they're afraid of to give him a better experience in life.
Have a little patience.
Like, take your time.
Don't rush right out.
Like, sometimes just admitting the fear is a big Like, that's been something for us lately.
Just admitting that the fear is there and being able to lay that on the table is a big step.
And, like, just be with that for a while.
You don't need to rush through these things.
You probably do more harm than good in the long run by being in any kind of a hurry.
Right.
So I really enjoyed this conversation.
I think this is going to be helpful to a lot of people as they to sort out how they make this leader follower thing work for them in a way that's healthy.
I hope so.
I appreciate you.
Showing up and being vulnerable and sharing with me today.
My pleasure
